Starting out in gold bullion

Admin wrote:

denby wrote:Just had a quick look at todays available small gold coin selling prices ,

2016 1/2 sov battle of the atlantic £215 freepost, UK only,

1/4oz 1987 aussie nugget £415+ post UK only,

3x1/2 sov 1911/12 and 13 £200 each, you pay post, George Vth, buy all 3 £600 with SD posted, available now.

they will both sell today and be replaced by other offers selling small gold coins, these are typical selling prices by the private owners.

That is some really good prices.

The thing is to shop around. I personally only buy gold from VERY trust worthy people. And I know where they bought them from. IE if they bought them directly from Atkinsons, Bullion by Post, The Royal Mint etc.  A lot of people have NO problems showing proof. I keep mine in a rather odd place but I do keep my receipts.

This is why we build a relationship with each other on the forum. I would not think twice about buying gold from anyone on here that has been active and engaged in conversations.. But I would still test them because we ALL should test Gold.. even from Dealers... I know it sounds daft but I just watched someone buy fakes by accident. And I spotted them straight away whilst talking to this person. They even tested it but ..... some times there are more than one test that needs to be done.. I will post more about this later. But Yikes. Be careful.

Yikes indeed @Admin. I look forward to your post about testing

I really like the new type quarter ounce American Eagles slightly more expensive than the sovereign around £475 but much prettier

denby wrote:Well Bondie, it took the market 10 years for the gold price to double.
I think house prices have been doubling every 5 years.
Gold has a lot of catching up to do.
The central banks of the World are showing a very big interest in buying gold at the moment.
What about our Scottish man who was Tony B(liars) chancellor, oh Mr Brown, selling half of our UK gold for $300 an ounce?
What a wally he was eh!
I wonder if this post will get past our moderators?

Mr Brown did what?? Oh my goodness @denby!!! And now I am almost ashamed of my half-Scottishness!

ArcaneCollector wrote: @Bondie I wouldn’t worry too much about the purity. It’s the amount of gold in the coin that’s important. Eagles, Sovs, Krugs all add a bit of copper to make the coins more hard wearing and scratch resistant. Pure gold is so soft that is makes for a terrible coin.

Thanks @ArcaneCollector. I will have a good think about that, for sure. This is all so helpful to me. Thank you

tray wrote:I really like the new type quarter ounce American Eagles slightly more expensive than the sovereign around £475 but much prettier

I must check that out @tray

@ArcaneCollector If you are serious I am putting together a list and will be getting a few sent from America IE Sigma's.

@Bondie Sovereigns are usually 22ct gold and not pure.. be careful if you are after Pure gold.

@ArcaneCollector " pure gold is soft and makes for a terrible coin " < I Very much disagree with this statement. Unless your handling your bullion on a regular basis in your jeans and denim pockets it is Perfect. You have the best of all worlds.

Admin wrote: @ArcaneCollector  If you are serious I am putting together a list and will be getting a few sent from America IE Sigma's.

@Bondie  Sovereigns are usually 22ct gold and not pure.. be careful if you are after Pure gold.

@ArcaneCollector  " pure gold is soft and makes for a terrible coin "   < I Very much disagree with this statement.  Unless your handling your bullion on a regular basis in your jeans and denim pockets it is Perfect. You have the best of all worlds.

@Admin when I say coin, I mean a coin meant for the purpose of being in the pockets of hundreds of people over time and used for transactions as intended. Uncirculated pure gold coins might as well be square, or funny shapes like the Korean stackers. They are just for putting in storage or display, to enjoy or resell one day.

And yes please. Put me down for a Sigma. I’m good for the money.

ArcaneCollector wrote:

Admin wrote: @ArcaneCollector  If you are serious I am putting together a list and will be getting a few sent from America IE Sigma's.

@Bondie  Sovereigns are usually 22ct gold and not pure.. be careful if you are after Pure gold.

@ArcaneCollector  " pure gold is soft and makes for a terrible coin "   < I Very much disagree with this statement.  Unless your handling your bullion on a regular basis in your jeans and denim pockets it is Perfect. You have the best of all worlds.

@Admin when I say coin, I mean a coin meant for the purpose of being in the pockets of hundreds of people over time and used for transactions as intended. Uncirculated pure gold coins might as well be square, or funny shapes like the Korean stackers. They are just for putting in storage or display, to enjoy or resell one day.

And yes please. Put me down for a Sigma. I’m good for the money.

You, me and one more person are looking to get a Sigma ... So I will keep you updated.
It will be a lot less than trying to buy one in the UK. I assume you want the large wand as well. I will ask before the final purchase. As I am replying on a family member back home.

@Bondie - My two sovs worth is not to get too caught up in the distinction between fine gold and 22ct gold.  Modern sovereigns, however, are made with an alloy that contains gold and copper with no silver, hence the rose gold colour which folks tend to love or hate.  Older sovs had a bit of silver in the alloy.  Just the 0.3 to 0.4% of silver is enough to lift the colour quite substantially.

You can get into older sovereigns fairly painlessly - consider looking at Gillicks, Machins and perhaps George V sovereigns as a starting point.  As sovereigns were withdrawn from circulation in 1914, many of these coins are not circulated and tend to be easy to obtain in good condition.  They also have low premiums so you can invest in them efficiently.  Victorian sovereigns can carry a small, or sometimes not-so-small numismatic premium, so it would pay to do your homework if you get into anything pre-WWI.  Sovereigns are something that you really have to do a bit of swotting up to understand their nuances.  You should probably get a copy of Marsh's The Gold Sovereign, Allen's Grading British Coins, and the current edition of Spink's Coins of England and the United Kingdom if you're going to get into sovereigns.

Half sovereigns can often be obtained at decent premiums, and can be worth getting if you happen upon them at the right price.  Their premiums should be a little higher than sovs, but less than new bullion coins.

Aside from that, what's been said about 1/4oz coins holds.  As long as you keep an eye on the premium you're paying (do shop around) they can be good value and quite liquid.  However, premiums on these are often higher than sovereigns.  1/10oz coins often carry a very high premium but can be worth buying if the come up at the right price, which sometimes happens on the secondary market.  By and large, though, they're really just small novelty items.

There are some other low premium circulated coins, such as LMU 20 franc coins (particularly Roosters or Vrenellis) that can also be good value to stack.  These are a little smaller than sovereigns. Some other gold coins can be obtained at a modest premiums, but most other world gold will have higher premiums than sovs, so you're getting into assessing the collectible value of these if you're going to buy them in quantity. I have a little bit of world gold, but it's about 10% or so of the total stack and just a minor not to collecting something that isn't a sov.

Just for reference, I have no 1oz coins, and nothing bigger than about 1/4oz or so.  My stack/collection is mainly sovs, with a bit of world gold, a little bit of 1/4oz, and some half sovs and a few 1/10 oz coins.  The last were mainly purchased either to photograph, or because I happened on them at a good price. I may get some 1oz coins at some point, but they're going to be a minority in the stack, as I've largely figured out how to find and buy fractional gold at decent prices.

I think your buying and stacking strategy is sensible and clearly falling within your budget. Even if you had a higher budget 1oz coins are really difficult to shift. I find it really odd but you can be the most respected and trusted seller on a group and will find it takes longer to sell a 1oz coin over a 1/10th coin. 2.5g 5g 10g bars are all great but have a high premium as they are most often Pamp or Hercules ,

I still suggest buying in 1/10th coins because they are very easy to sell and will sell rapidly if your not greedy. People have mentioned many times the Premium. Well I have shown in my videos that I have bought these years ago at £80 delivered from a reputable company. and now they ask £190 for the same ones. or more!!!!

It was a case of buying at the right time. Buying when gold was under £1,000 that is where and when I bought the majority of my gold bars from. The kilo bars are tiny compared to the gold !!!! half the size. But then that is to be expected and I have no plans to sell those. That's why they are vaulted for my children when I pass. And they can sell them to the vaulting company for a guarantee spot price. Which is awesome.

Anyway I am not a Sov expert, I am learning a lot about them. I have books gallore and will hopefully learn a tonne. But as I mentioned becareful when buying. Have a book and check the weights and do a gravity test. OR go to a jewellers and XRF it if unsure. I have a handful of fakes. which is scary, going back into the late 1800's

What you're really saying  @Admin , is that we need to be hopping in the Tardis and going back a few years, buying gold and then coming back. If only!
Ultimately, though, something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it and if nobody wants to buy then it's not worth much except as an abstract amount for the file.

The Cat's Mother wrote:What you're really saying  @Admin , is that we need to be hopping in the Tardis and going back a few years, buying gold and then coming back.  If only!
Ultimately, though, something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay for it and if nobody wants to buy then it's not worth much except as an abstract amount for the file.

LOL

No what I mean is that if you read the historical charts you can get a basic idea of where Gold and Silver could go. Does anyone remember when Silver was nearly at £40 per oz? it happened but fell quickly.

Gold took a dip at that time, But we can still grab bargains. So keep a eye out.

Admin wrote:[ . . . ]
I still suggest buying in 1/10th coins because they are very easy to sell and will sell rapidly if your not greedy. People have mentioned many times the Premium. Well I have shown in my videos that I have bought these years ago at £80 delivered from a reputable company. and now they ask £190 for the same ones. or more!!!!

1/10oz coins are worth buying if you can get them at the right price - usually off the secondary market.  I've bought a few for photos, working on the assumption that the possibility of losing £10 or £20 on the coin is worth getting a nice pic, as well as buying them when they come up at the right price.  I wouldn't base my whole stack on them, though.

If you're diligent, or in the right price at the right time you can pick up tenths at less than 10% over spot, and a the right price they're plenty liquid as they're down in a price range where they're an alternative to silver for some folks.  Same thing with half sovs, of which I also have a few.

I think small gold is something that you can do cost-effectively if you know where to look and maybe keep a bit of an eye out for bargains.  Tavex's 1g bars, for example, are a bit of a flagship product that they sell at quite modest premiums by 1g standards.  Buying 5 of those is often cheaper than buying 5g bars from most dealers.

That is odd and interesting to buy 1g bars is less than a 5g bar. hmmm I like that. Expecially as I am moving into making gold art as well as my silver art.

Smaller bars comes in handy when you dont have the stomach to melt a whole eagle or maple 1oz gold coin. lol.

I suggest for those starting off BUDGET. so if your budget is small and your impulsive than 1/10ths are great.
If you can afford a 1/2oz GREAT.

Buying a 1oz coin is also nice but I would not go more than that. A 100g bar is REALLY REALLY hard to sell unless your selling it to a dealer. And kilo bars are dealer only.
As for those big shiny bars you see on TV. Yeah the 100oz bars lol good luck Even dealers are limited to what they will buy and expect it to be drilled.

Sovereigns are something I am not keen on. I know it is a personal choice and we both are coming from 2 areas of views. I know plenty who collect them. I have a few thanks to you guys kinda making me buy some. But I dont like the 22ct gold aspect. I look at it as WHEN I melt them down.. not IF I melt them down..

I am not sure if that makes sense.. but to me it is a bit of a hit or miss thing.

FYI I have not bought anything from Tavex yet, I just am not sure ..... some people love them ... others not so much. But to me I dont know. The last time I looked it was a big sign up thing and then they spam the heck out of you. Is that how they work??? seriously I have no clue. I hate spam.

Admin wrote:That is odd and interesting to buy 1g bars is less than a 5g bar. hmmm I like that. Expecially as I am moving into making gold art as well as my silver art.

They're a sort of flagship product for Tavex, and they sell them at a pretty modest premium by 1g standards (about 11 or 12% last time I looked).  I think they sell them as a sort of incentive to get folks in the door.  They're actually an OEM product made by Nadir Refineri.  You can get the cards custom printed with your own designs if you want to order enough, although I have no idea what the minimum order is.

Admin wrote:[ . . . ]
Buying a 1oz coin is also nice but I would not go more than that. A 100g bar is REALLY REALLY hard to sell unless your selling it to a dealer. And kilo bars are dealer only.
As for those big shiny bars you see on TV. Yeah the 100oz bars lol good luck Even dealers are limited to what they will buy and expect it to be drilled.

That tallies with what I've seen on TSF - I did a search back through the old sales postings, and there have only been a couple of sales of 100g bars that I could find, plus a couple of attempts to sell that didn't get any takers.  £5,000+ is too much for most people, plus you can't get insurance for more than £2,500 on RMSD, so there are some problems with getting them shipped at a reasonable price.  I could only find a handful of sales of 50g bars as well.

IMO, you don't want to buy anything bigger than 1oz if you're planning to hold it physically and sell it on the secondary market.  Bars of 100g or more are mainly useful for vaulting arrangements where they can be kept in audited storage and nobody has to test them.

Admin wrote:[ . . . ]
FYI I have not bought anything from Tavex yet, I just am not sure ..... some people love them ... others not so much. But to me I dont know. The last time I looked it was a big sign up thing and then they spam the heck out of you. Is that how they work??? seriously I have no clue. I hate spam.

I've bought a few bits and bobs of Tavex and I don't get regular spam from them. A lot of dealers want you to sign up for accounts these days as they have compliance requirements that kick in when they've sold £10,000 worth of gold to any one counterparty.

Thank you bud, I really appreciate all of that useful information. I am sure we crossed paths before on TSF. A place I don't talk about anymore since being banned for being a dealer... ( LOL as if !! ) But I was a Gold or what ever paying member. I made sure that this place is FREE and that I will Never Ever charger for the use. I pay for this out of my own pocket.

The mods do the jobs with no pay or incentives. And are honest, and fair. TSF was a great place to buy and sell. I hope more members feel it safe to join up here and then one day they will learn they can save themselves a lot of money per year. At least enough to buy a 1/10th piece of gold or 2 100g bars. time will tell.

I knew BYB got his 1g gold bars made up somewhere, and now I know. I have no plans to do that, but I did think it was kind of neat. I could do that and have The Precious Metal Forum bars made.. lol to offset some costs, BUT I will pass. This is about you all. And well. I am rambling.

I will check them out, if anything to grab a few 1g bars for melting. I also buy and am melting down old hallmarked 9ct jewellery. That's my first practice. LOL

And no doubt you know I am AceBullion. I am just on the Admin computer far more than on the Ace one. It is so much easier to do all the work I need to in the background than to keep switching. Its not a secret, but I wanted to clarify in case. NO secrets here.

Admin wrote:[ . . . ]
I will check them out, if anything to grab a few 1g bars for melting. I also buy and am melting down old hallmarked 9ct jewellery. That's my first practice. LOL

Do you do your own refining? It looks like you have to jump through hoops to get access to most of the chemicals here.

Silverlocks wrote:

Admin wrote:[ . . . ]
I will check them out, if anything to grab a few 1g bars for melting. I also buy and am melting down old hallmarked 9ct jewellery. That's my first practice. LOL

Do you do your own refining?  It looks like you have to jump through hoops to get access to most of the chemicals here.

Yes but I do not advertise it.
You need appropriate licences for chemicals, and obviously you have to know what your doing. Plus SAFETY.
I don't go into any of that on here. But if you have questions send me a pm.
If you are interested buy a Hokes book.

Admin wrote:And no doubt you know I am AceBullion.  I am just on the Admin computer far more than on the Ace one. It is so much easier to do all the work I need to in the background than to keep switching. Its not a secret, but I wanted to clarify in case. NO secrets here.

One thing I have done is to have Chrome and Firefox open with different logins active.  Of course in the case I did that, the second account had a picture of Lambchop as an avatar, with the tagline 'Totally not a sockpuppet.'

I'd had you down as a Hush Puppy or Charlie Horse @Silverlocks .

The Cat's Mother wrote:I'd had you down as a Hush Puppy or Charlie Horse  @Silverlocks .

I did have some hush puppies I got in New Zealand at one point, but the sole split on one of them, and it wasn't feasible to replace it.

More recently, I got a pair of Solovairs for work. They used to be a subcontractor for Dr. Martens, and now Dr. Martens has been bought out and run into the ground they're the closest thing on the market to old school Dr. Marten shoes.